Here Is A Real Life Application Of Jalopnik Car Buying Advice

"Torque Affair" (torqueaffair)
01/25/2015 at 09:52 • Filed to: CAR BUYING

Do you ever read the Tavarish "Why buy new when you can buy a used Veyron" posts and think: Does anyone actually follow this advice?

Recently, someone that I work with just did.

My colleague, who currently owns a Subaru WRX STI, bought his car brand new in 2004 and after many years of hard driving, it has finally started to exhibit signs of impending failure. So, as you can imagine, it's time to replace it with something else.

I love it when people are in the market for a new car - but only if it's something that I'm interested in or if I am able to assuade them into purchasing something that I actually desire ( I have no shame ). But if all they want is something cheap, ordinary and practical to transport them from point A to B, then I really have no interest whatsoever.

His STI has over 120K miles on it and it's clear that he has thoroughly enjoyed driving it. It truly is the antithesis of what you would imagine a garage queen to be; I don't even think his car has ever even seen a garage! And I don't necessarily mean this in a bad way - it's always nice to see people actually driving their cars and not care so much about keeping it in perfect condition.

Lately, the repair bills on his slowly dying STI have become entirely too much and although he has already put some money into his car, there are still $2K worth of repairs that he needs to have done. What a hassle!

When he was considering buying new used cars, several options were on the table. Imagine my surprise, when I found him to be actually paying attention to what I was saying! Now remember - this wasn't a situation where he wanted my advice - I just forced myself into his car buying journey and started working my voodoo magic on him and putting thoughts into this head like...

"You must buy a 2012 E63 Wagon because who wouldn't want to be driving a 550 hp wagon??"

In reality, the car he buys now is only temporary. He will most likely replace it with a used version of a car that has only recently come out - and one that we test drove first - the Infiniti Q50 hybrid.

Both of us were quite impressed by the hybrid mostly because of the large amount of low-end torque the car had similar to the Tesla P 85. It was so much fun to floor the car from every stoplight; we couldn't get enough of the instant torque generated by the electric motor. The salesman in the car with us didn't like us much very much.

We drove a number of M3s, all of which were a blast to drive. Then, we threw the BMW M6 into the mix which neither of us liked and ultimately realized that the M3 is actually a much better car which I talked about !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

After looking through a couple other options, he kept coming back to the M3 since it is such a great combination of practicality and fun - and most of all it had a manual option which he really wanted.

Now the question was, where should he buy one from?

Here is where I was able to share Doug DeMuro's experience with CarMax and their awesome warranty. Like the good friend that I was, I used one data point (Doug) and made the generalization to boldly state this:

"CarMax cars are a slice of heaven - buy one now".

All joking aside, people are generally surprised to find out about CarMax warranties. My colleague definitely falls into that group. He hadn't thought about CarMax prior to me bringing it up and so we went to take a look at a manual 2008 M3 which he liked quite a bit. It seemed to be in great shape with only 69K miles on it.

At CarMax, he had the great idea to take the M3 to the BMW dealer to do a full inspection. The plan was that if the dealer found a major problem with it that would cost him potentially thousands of dollars, he could return the car back to CarMax thanks to their 5-day money back policy - now, that was good thinking.

He was better at this than me!

He was sold on the CarMax deal and was about to pull the trigger until he happened to find this beauty at the Subaru dealer: a black on black on black on black on black E92 M3 coupe.

It was a 2008 model with a few tastefully done exterior modifications like the front bumper, rear spoiler along with a few other things.

My first reaction was "What?! Don't trade your car in, you'll get totally ripped off."

But, it turns out, I was actually wrong about this.

All the Dealer Trade-In Benefits

First, they were willing to give him $10,500 (upped from an initial $9.5K offer) for his STI which already needed a couple thousand dollars worth of repairs. So even if he was able to sell it privately, he wouldn't be able to make that much more on top of the expensive repair bill. Not to mention the hassle of getting everything fixed and selling - that sounds like a nightmare to me.

Second, you have to pay sales tax on only the difference between the value of the car he was buying and the trade-in. This is actually huge because it means a grand in savings at least.

Also, the dealer agreed to sign a document stating that my colleague could take the car to the BMW dealer for a full inspection and that the purchase was contingent upon the fact that nothing major was wrong with the car. Now, that was a fantastic idea.

And so, the dealer let him drive the car to BMW of Austin where they did a full inspection and found that the M3 was a piece of junk.

No - just kidding - fortunately that wasn't the case.

There was really one thing wrong with it - and it wasn't even that bad. The battery in the car was the original battery that came from the factory in 2008 and just now after all these years was it starting show signs of weakness. We could hardly believe that the battery in the car was the one from 8 years ago! In every car that I've owned, the battery has never lasted anywhere close to that long; I go through them as often as I go through tires.

But here is one thing that's even crazier. The dealer agreed to cover the battery replacement, which BMW quoted at $425. Now let's just hope nothing else goes wrong with the car if that's how much it costs to replace the battery!

The dealer also replaced the brakes which are not cheap on an M3. Also, the tires are basically new.

At this point, the CarMax M3 soon became a distant memory - the dealer M3 was the one that he bought for $31K minus the STI trade-in value.

So, let me sum it up for you. This black 2008 M3 ended up being a fantastic deal with only 59K miles with brand new brakes and tires that were almost new and a new battery. And, nothing was wrong with the car. So, if he decides to sell it in a year, there is a high probability that he will not have pay for anything out of pocket aside from an oil change for one year of ownership and maybe the cost of a ticket or two.

I was so envious of his remarkable purchase that I made a deal with him - after one year of owning this car, he will sell me the car for $20K.

Just joking - of course that would never happen . What will happen though is that he will let me drive the car occasionally which I am ecstatic about.

Who knew trading a car in would actually work out so well?

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!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! is about exploring my fascination with cars; I'm always on the lookout for things that interest me in the car world. Like !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and follow !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! !

DISCUSSION (100)

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 10:07

I'm guessing it won't end up happening, but in my dad's search for a new car, we looked at many Tavarish/Demuro cheap luxury cars. CLS63 AMG, CTS-V, E60 M5, supercharged Range Rover, V10 S8, 300 SRT8, the lot. All between $35-45k, except the Rover, which was about $20,000. All of them are very tempting, but, as my dad put it, "I need one more sensible car, and then I can go a little bit crazy".

Congrats on your friend's M3, it's a great-looking car, and obviously they have a reputation for being phenomenal driving machines. I have never driven one, but I rode in one with aftermarket exhaust, and mostly what I remember was that it was very very fast, and thanks to the exhaust setup, very very loud. I have no doubts he will love it.

Tipo Stradale Fever > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 10:30

"There was really one thing wrong with it - and it wasn't even that bad. The battery in the car was the original battery that came from the factory in 2008 and just now after all these years was it starting show signs of weakness. We could hardly believe that the battery in the car was the one from 8 years ago! In every car that I've owned, the battery has never lasted anywhere close to that long; I go through them as often as I go through tires."

Is this a real issue people have?...I´ve still got the original battery in my 2004 Golf MK5, and its as strong as ever. Even after being parked for 2 weeks in the cold (airport) it starts right up. No problems at all.

PatBateman > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 10:41

I have been randomly infatuated with looking at certified 2013 F30 335i's with the M Sport package. Basically, it would come with a 4 year/75,000 mile factory warranty, I could get one for $38k or so, and, for an additional $2k, have the power upped to 365 HP/416 lb-ft torques WITHOUT messing up the warranty (thanks, Dinan!).

Vicente Esteve > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 11:01

Kinja'd!!!

Orange Market light delete was the best modification.

Tohru > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 11:14

We could hardly believe that the battery in the car was the one from 8 years ago! In every car that I've owned, the battery has never lasted anywhere close to that long

In '03 I bought a '96 Bronco XLT with 90k miles, and it still had the factory Motorcraft battery in it. The battery was still going strong when I sold it in early '05.

The roommate's '06 G35 was running the OEM battery up until last year's winter brutally murdered it. It has an Optima in it now.

E92M3 > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 11:18

This ladies and gentlemen is how it's done. He could drive this car for 2 years for little to no depreciation and minimal running costs. Or he could buy a new car that will depreciate $5-8k the first year.

signintoburnerlol > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 11:24

I hope he doesn't like to work on his cars. Those M3's tend to be...annoying.

In fact, if I'm correct, only BMW can change the battery or you'll get a light or something.

Congrats though!

jmedarts > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 11:41

looks like a great car, and I sincerely wish your friend well with it, but the DeMuro maneuver only involves CarMax because of the CarMax warranty. This is significant on a car like an M3, witness the battery cost. Did your friend get an aftermarket warranty through the dealer?

Devilishprune > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 11:56

2 Things:

1. I hadn't checked M3 prices before and didn't realize you could get one with relatively low miles for 30k-ish.

2. How could he pass up the one with a red interior?

itranthelasttimeiparkedit > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 12:09

If he needs a good local shop for work, check out german auto center on 183. We've owned all sorts of porsches and bmws and have been using them for years (our friends do too.) Really honest and do great work. And the most important part - much cheaper than the dealer!

PardonMyFlemish16 > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 12:17

E9x M3s are excellent if you can stomach the running costs. He made the right decision.

Jimmy Tango > Tipo Stradale Fever
01/25/2015 at 12:35

BMW are pretty crazy machines in terms of battery usage. I went through two in three years due to low distance commute and cold weather. My case is definitely one of the worst, but won't be surprised what OP stated was the general consensus.

Tipo Stradale Fever > Jimmy Tango
01/25/2015 at 12:47

Jesus, and these are OEM batteries? That´s crazy, how is that even possible. Sounds like BMW needs to change suppliers...

Jimmy Tango > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 12:48

Congrats to your friend! Does that one happen to have CF roof?

I am by no means owner of M3 ( yet) but I did my fair amount of dreaming. I would look for the following items on maintenance list or do these soon if they were original parts:

1. rear differential bushings

2. rod bearings: here is the thread people discuss about aftermarket bearing (<- Amazon link)

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr…

Keep Oppos updated on how he likes the car!

Jimmy Tango > Tipo Stradale Fever
01/25/2015 at 12:52

The first one I think they are (I bought used, during inspection the battery was fine, could be the case that it was close to the end of life.) The second one is definitely OEM cuz I paid stealership to do it LOL.

I had a bad case of fuel pump and battle with it for three months, which require a lot of priming and short/intensive crank. I am probably responsible for the second battery death.

Chris Limbright > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 14:37

No joke was just about to post an ad for this m3 I found on carmax, talking about how dirty cheap it was http://www.carmax.com/enus/view-car/…

heollha > Tipo Stradale Fever
01/25/2015 at 14:41

I most definitely go through batteries as often as I go through tires. Be it the OEM batteries or AutoZones or DieHards or whatever it's all the same.

heollha > heollha
01/25/2015 at 14:42

GAH I finally got followed by Jalopnik but I'm still gray in oppo :'(

citizennick > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 14:44

nice read! People might be scared buying an E90/92 M3 but those V8s have proven to be very, very good motors, hardly ever see an issue from them.

csweiner > Tohru
01/25/2015 at 14:46

My '91 Miata had 15 years on the OEM Panasonic battery before poorly installed alarm killed the battery. Just remember kids, just because they are a dealer for the alarm doesn't mean they have a f***ing clue on how to install it.

Tipo Stradale Fever > heollha
01/25/2015 at 14:47

I followed you on Oppo, you should be out of the greys now.

heollha > Tipo Stradale Fever
01/25/2015 at 14:48

Thank you!! My life is now complete!

TommyRocker > Tipo Stradale Fever
01/25/2015 at 14:55

that's crazy talk

Iwaswonderofwonders > Tipo Stradale Fever
01/25/2015 at 14:57

Have a 1996 Saturn SL1 DD that had it's orginal Delco battery until the winter of 2014.

So there's that.

Kinja'd Again > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 15:01

My old '06 Supercharged Range Rover still has the original battery. It has 90,000 miles, but it stopped being my daily driver a few years ago.

Kinja'd Again > sm70- why not Duesenberg?
01/25/2015 at 15:02

The Range Rover, CLS63, and CTS-V are sensible if you take care of them.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Kinja'd Again
01/25/2015 at 15:03

Depends on just how "sensible" you need them to be.

Tipo Stradale Fever > Iwaswonderofwonders
01/25/2015 at 15:04

Haha +1 . Yeah I´ve heard it´s a BMW thing. I really wonder why tho....

Soloburrito > itranthelasttimeiparkedit
01/25/2015 at 15:07

I've dropped off a friend there a few times to get work done on his AMG. I always stare longingly at the E30 M3 parked out front.

vissile > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 15:08

Trade in tax break story from friends of mine.

Brian needed a new / used car. Brian's father-in-law, John, was looking at replacing his 07 fully loaded Passat with an Audi A4. John went to Audi, and they only offered him $4k for his Passat, so after doing all the numbers, he said he'd trade in the Passat and buy the A4 - under one condition - that they turn around and sell the Passat to Brian for the exact $4k they just bought it for.

That way, John still got his tax break, Brian still got a solid car for well below market value, and Audi sold an A4.

Iwaswonderofwonders > Tipo Stradale Fever
01/25/2015 at 15:13

This has been a freakishly reliable car (I've owned it for 9 years) - never left me anywhere. Only 84k on it, 5 sp and I treat it like shit.

I'm afraid to get rid of it.

phobos512 > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 15:16

Only having to pay tax on the difference between trade-in value and new vehicle price varies by state. It works that way in Maryland also, but in California you pay tax on the full price of the vehicle. Something to be aware of.

Jorge Milian > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 15:18

59K .. Timing belt time (60K) I'm not a BMW sort but if it's a chain , all the better,

gearboxtrouble > Tipo Stradale Fever
01/25/2015 at 15:19

In every M3 I've ever owned (1x e46 and 1x e92) the battery needed replacing in year 5. On my current f82 m4, BMW claim the lithium battery will last over 10 years so it looks like they're responding to the concerns.

The-Ever-Socially-Apathetic TBAL > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 15:24

My old Z32 had its original battery from 1991 all the way up to 2011. I do have picture proof, although it'll take me awhile to find it.

E92's are great - but maintenance over a year won't be cheap. Even the oil changes will come in at a high price if he intends to keep the value of the car stable by taking it to a Certified BMW Garage.

Otherwise, excellent purchase.

Serious Gord > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 15:26

$425 for a fricken battery!? If that is at all indicative of what other parts for this car cost I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole unless it had an excellent warranty especially when one considers the kind of abuse this kind of car may have been subjected to by the previous owner.

And the carmax car came with a warranty. The one that was purchased didn't. Let's see what 24 months of usage means in terms of cost before declaring it a great deal.

Might is suggest a follow-up with the owner 12 and 24 months from now? That could be very educational for everyone.

inlinesexzylinder > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 15:27

"it's always nice to see people actually driving their cars and not care so much about keeping it in perfect condition."

You can actually drive your car, enjoy it and keep it perfect condition. ;)

gearboxtrouble > citizennick
01/25/2015 at 15:27

Yeah... I drove one for 5 years. Never had a single engine issue, though I did follow all the break in guidelines and maintenance schedules pretty strictly which is pretty rare amongst some of the people who drive their (usually leased) cars crazy hard on day one and end up leaving all the problems to the next owner. What did break was the transmission, which if it is a DCT is a $16000 part. Luckily the extended warranty paid for it but just something to know if you're ever looking to buy one.

Tipo Stradale Fever > Iwaswonderofwonders
01/25/2015 at 15:27

I´ve got exactly the same thing going on with my Golf MK5.

Bought it (in 2007) at 37k, it´s now at almost 99k. The only thing that needed replacement was a $20 engine coolant temp. sensor at about 50k. That´s literally it. And believe me, I drive it hard. I dont think I´ll ever have such a reliable car again. Maybe VW made an error and sold me an indestructible prototype or something like that...

So I´m probably not going to sell it.

thisusernameforsale > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 15:29

Is this not a normal thing in the US? Every used car I've bought has had this written into the sales contract here in Australia. It usually took me months to find a car I wanted to get checked out each time I bought one, but I would not buy one without that inspection.

Tipo Stradale Fever > gearboxtrouble
01/25/2015 at 15:31

I really wonder why BMW´s batteries dont last. Never had any issues like that in my VW or my parents´ Benzes.

Methylsulfonylmethane > heollha
01/25/2015 at 15:36

Look into the DieHard Platinum. That line is one of the best ways to get an Absorbent Glass Mat (AGM) battery.

Kinja'd!!!

AGMs are much more tolerant of high discharge rates than typical "flooded" lead acid batteries. They work better in very cold temperatures and are drastically more vibration resistant. I swear that lots of vibration and frequent g-force loading can speed the death of a flooded lead-acid battery.

For these reasons and others I would recommend an AGM (or Lithium Iron Phosphate if available) battery for many high-performance applications.

Iwaswonderofwonders > Tipo Stradale Fever
01/25/2015 at 15:38

The only thing I've done to the Saturn is coolant temp sensor ($8), front pads, oil and tires. It does eat front tires because of bad front geometry (all Saturns). The interior is slowly disentegrating because - it's 19 years old. But the plastic panels and paint look like it rolled out of Spring Hill yesterday. It even went to one of the Saturn reunions.

GM really fucked the pooch with these cars.

icelandr > Jimmy Tango
01/25/2015 at 15:38

A battery lasting 8 years isn't anything special, The AC Delco in my 2008 Trailblazer SS (bought by 1st owner December 13, 2007) was still strong when I had the car stolen October 28, 2014. It had to crank a 6.0L engine over at -10 to -20 most of January and February in North Dakota winters without a block heater due to being at school.

ZeGerman > Tipo Stradale Fever
01/25/2015 at 15:41

The battery in my last car (DieHard) was still running strong after 10 winters when I sent the car to the scrap yard. The battery in my BMW now has been strong for the 5 years I've owned the car, and I bought the car used so who knows how old the battery is. People always say that batteries get sketchy after 3-4 years, but that has never once been my experience.

blackhawk > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 15:45

Head gaskets? Head gaskets.

shadowx360 > PatBateman
01/25/2015 at 15:49

Same! Especially in Estoril Blue with a black front splitter and blacked out rocker panels. I'm probably going to pick one up just outside of warranty so I'll probably run JB4 instead of Dinan. Throw on a catless downpipe and intake and you'll be looking at 400 HP easy. If I was spending $2k I'd probably throw on a Stage 2 Vargas Turbo instead, but I'm always scared of running 500 HP on a transmission designed to do 300.

Too many M's > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 15:49

This is great! I bought my E90 and owned it for roughly a year. The V8 was intoxicating and far more enjoyable than ANYTHING I could have purchased new for the same price. I reluctantly sold so I can buy a newer track car, but I will certainly revisit the platform soon.

Congrats on your friends purchase, I know he will enjoy it for only a year....or will end up owning for even longer. By then it might be worth the $20k :D

Too many M's > Tipo Stradale Fever
01/25/2015 at 15:51

The batteries are spendy, however on the E9x platform they have to be programmed to the car. Another level of complication. It's a small job but I'm sure dealers still charge $100 for it.

killerhurtalot3 > PatBateman
01/25/2015 at 15:51

nope... the would void the BMW warranty... but then Dinan would cover the costs...

so basically what happens is:

1. your car has a problem.

2. you take it into a bmw dealership and they find out what's wrong, and give you a quote.

3. they forward that quote to Dinan and wait for Dinan's approval.

4. If Dinan rejects the quote, you're fucked. either gotta complain to Dinan and try to get them to cover it or you're paying it yourself.

Too many M's > E92M3
01/25/2015 at 15:52

I bought my E90 and sold it at very nearly the break even point a year and 9k miles later.

Too many M's > signintoburnerlol
01/25/2015 at 15:54

the stealership can do it, or someone with coding software to program the battery to the car.

shadowx360 > signintoburnerlol
01/25/2015 at 15:55

Nope. If you replace the battery with a non-OEM one, then you must code the ECU to know how fast to charge it with the alternator. Easily done with an OBD tool and INPA, or just go get an OEM one. No lights will appear, just that your battery might die earlier if you don't code it to be charged for its exact stats.

MB > Tipo Stradale Fever
01/25/2015 at 15:55

The Texas weather eats batteries (its the heat). I'm not sure I've ever had a battery outlast the warranty, be it OEM, Duralast, or Optima, they've all succumb to the Texas environment.

CecilTurtle > Tipo Stradale Fever
01/25/2015 at 15:56

Most batteries are prorate-warranted for 5 or 6 years, 10 years is very good but I would expect it to get weak soon. It definitely isn't as strong as ever.

Over $400 for a new battery seems ridiculous though unless it's crazy hidden and they have to drop the exhaust or something dumb.

Floating Adam West > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 15:57

That's a sexy ass car, but the thing about CarMax revolves around their warranty. For the cost of a couple extra thousand you get a warranty that lets you take the car to a BMW dealer for service for the price of your chosen deductible. That's an insane deal when it comes to cars with expensive service prices.

Bueller > Tipo Stradale Fever
01/25/2015 at 15:57

Yes, it is if you leave in Texas. Batteries are eaten by heat every 3 to 5 years over there.

Tipo Stradale Fever > Too many M's
01/25/2015 at 15:58

Dafuq, why do they need to be programmed to the car? A long time ago, me and my dad changed the battery on his w204 C class. The car needed to be 'reset'. But that could he done by a series of simple tasks you could do on your own. Do you mean something like that?

Driving_Impaired > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 16:03

Torque, buy my black on black on black on black on black m3 looking 335 and you and your buddy can be twinsies :-)

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/484579…

aeternitas > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 16:06

Kinja'd!!!

that is a very black car, i like it

mtdrift > Tipo Stradale Fever
01/25/2015 at 16:08

Yup, the battery in my '04 Mini Cooper S (BMW, too, natch) is still original equipment. Even outside in butt-ass cold Montana it's never let me down, and it shows no sign of stopping.

EDIT: I'm wondering if the fact that the battery lives in a little compartment under the floor of the luggage compartment has something to do with it? It stays nice and cozy warm when the car's on, and it's never been exposed to the elements.

Shaggy > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 16:10

Fine and all, but no warranty. I'd be concerned, especially with BMWs.

Too many M's > Tipo Stradale Fever
01/25/2015 at 16:10

I wish it was that easy but no. The battery must be "registered" to the car. If you have a coding app this can be done yourself but there aren't any hidden menus or methods to do this on the car itself.

Jimmy Tango > icelandr
01/25/2015 at 16:10

Thanks for the info, but I wasn't the one surprised at 8-years-lasting battery.

Tipo Stradale Fever > Too many M's
01/25/2015 at 16:15

Haha, that´s crazy!

Tipo Stradale Fever > mtdrift
01/25/2015 at 16:17

I don´t know if the cold really is an issue. In fact, I think it´s exactly the opposite. Excessive heat (think desert heat) is the real killer of car batteries...

Copperbottoms > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 16:19

My 2003 M3 has had the same battery since at least 2008 when the previous owner purchased the thing! Still no signs of giving out.

Incidentally, e46 M3s used the same battery as Mini Coopers did at the time. Finding a Mini battery is much cheaper and less difficult!

Copperbottoms > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 16:22

Dealerships really aren't so bad if you find one with good management. The best ones want to cultivate a good relationship with you and will sometimes bend over backwards, even on first encounters :)

Matsayz > Too many M's
01/25/2015 at 16:26

Um... Why the f*ck does the dealer have to change the battery on a car? And the car will tattle on you if you do it yourself? WTF over!

MKPhoto > signintoburnerlol
01/25/2015 at 16:28

BMW uses a charge controller on the battery that manages how quickly the battery ages. Its why BMW batteries last forever, but when you replace the HUGE battery (Its double the size of a regular car battery) you need to go to the dealer to get the car's charge controller reprogrammed for the new (and higher voltage) battery. They charge you an hours labor for that. So it totals $400 dollars, $150 for the hour and $250 for the battery.

Also, If you dont get the car coded for the new battery it will overcharge it, which can lead to a battery explosion! And yes, ive seen it happen.

My 2008 135 is still on its factory battery after 115K miles. No signs of slowing down!

jalop1991 > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 16:29

hehehehe He has a 10 year old Subaru that only needs a couple grand in work, after which it's no doubt good for another 10 years, but he ignores that in favor of a car—a USED car, which will need the same kind of work far sooner—for which the fucking battery alone is over $400.

After 10 solid years of 'Rex fun and reliability and cheap running, absolutely no bells went off in his head at this point?

Matsayz > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 16:35

Gotta love happy endings. I do feel like this is a rare success story. Especially since the BMW was at the Subaru dealer.

Jason Nifong > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 16:36

I've always followed this philosophy since I bought my first car out of college (a used '93 LT1 Z28, bought in 1997). My wife & I have never bought a new car. Our current cars are an '03 Infiniti M45 w/340 hp V8 (bought used in '07) & an '06 Range Rover Sport Supercharged. I pulled a "DeMuro" with that one, we bought it in 2011, from Carmax, with the warranty.

Vin > Tipo Stradale Fever
01/25/2015 at 16:39

This is not as unusual as you think. Some cars' factory battery performance are appalling (insert Ferrari joke here) but for the most part an 8 year-old battery in a modern performance car is pretty uncommon.

Kevin Rhodes > Tipo Stradale Fever
01/25/2015 at 16:40

It's about $275-300 for the battery, which is a gel/AGM type like an Optima, and rather large. Then most dealers charge an hour labor to "register" the battery with the cars computer, which tells the charging system that there is a new battery so that it can adapt the charging characteristics (and an hour is typical dealer BS, it takes about 5 minutes to do).

To save energy, and thus fuel, modern BMWs generally only charge the battery when you are coasting or decelerating - think of it as a super mild hybrid energy recovery strategy. But this means that when the battery is being charged, it is being charged really, really, really hard. The characteristics for this are different for a new battery vs. and old battery, and for the different sizes and types of batteries, so the computer needs to know what is in there. If you don't register the new battery, you can literally cause an explosion due to overcharging and hydrogen gas venting.

You can do the registration yourself, I have an Android App that can do it. There are also Windows programs.

Vin > Kinja'd Again
01/25/2015 at 16:41

Agreed.

If you get a glassy-eyed look in response to your recommendation of "preventative maintenance," that person has no earthly business owning any of the cars you listed.

PatBateman > killerhurtalot3
01/25/2015 at 16:42

It won't void the warranty. If I slap a Dinan ECU Reprogrammer on, and a week later my stereo/another part unrelated to the Dinan install goes out, BMW will still fix it (and are legally mandated to do so). Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

dplint > Jimmy Tango
01/25/2015 at 16:42

I took my mum's 323i to get a new battery once and the guy at the battery place checked and said "jesus, that's a truck battery"

grahamrh808 > Tipo Stradale Fever
01/25/2015 at 16:43

Surely that's a dealer price for the battery. But sadly, if you're the owner of newer BMW, you'll have to have the dealer or a capable independent BMW shop swap the battery for your. Sure, you could just pop a new battery in yourself, but these days BMWs have different charging maps depending on the type of battery installed...so you need to swap the battery, then use the right diagnostic software to tell the car you've changed the battery, and to tell it what kind of new battery was put in.

Yup, it's a pain.

Viktor King > Tipo Stradale Fever
01/25/2015 at 16:48

BMW's aren't typically battery-munchers, battery-monitoring variable-charge-rate ECUs ('DME') just have a narrower definition of a 'good' battery. Unless the instrument cluster is doing cartwheels or the doors are locking themselves, 'old' battery just means 'older than the engineers would like'.

The registering process is simply a matter of programming the system to charge a factory-fresh battery differently than a battery aged 'x' number of months vs. one battery type over another.

Kevin Rhodes > E92M3
01/25/2015 at 16:48

But you could also do European Delivery on a new one, save $4K off the top (plus whatever you can negotiate with the dealer), and get exactly what you want for options and colors, not someone else's sloppy seconds. And you are getting the VERY best years of a cars life, which are certainly worth a premium.

IMHO, buying used only makes sense when buying REALLY used. Compared to the first owner paying $80K, my Range Rover at $5500 was worth it. But you don't save enough on a 3yo BMW to be giving up the best 3 years of the cars life. My '11 328i has depreciated only about $11K from what I paid for it 3.5 years ago. Totally worth $11K for 3 trouble-free years and getting exactly the car I wanted, plus driving around Europe in it for three weeks.

Kevin Rhodes > PatBateman
01/25/2015 at 16:51

Strictly speaking, what you are getting is a Dinan warranty that is the equivalent of the factory warranty. It is still possible for Dinan and BMW to get into a finger-pointing match if you have major issues. Still a MUCH better scenario than any other aftermarket tune which has NO warranty.

Still seems like lilly-gilding to me - is 300hp really just not enough? How fast do you need to go?

ACS335i > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 16:53

Last weekend I stumbled on a 2007 335i with a bunch of AC Schnitzer parts installed. It only has 59k miles and literally every option avaliable. I test drove it Tuesday, and fell in love with it immediately.

The dealership gave me a shitty trade in so I went to carmax, and got an offer 2k more then the dealership. Ended up going back to the stealership with the carmax offer and they agreed to take my Avenger for what carmax offered.

The car after all the taxes was only 20k, no regrets at all!

Christopheroni > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 16:53

The 2k that the Subaru needed is going to be chump change after he finds out what this thing is going to need.

Kevin Rhodes > csweiner
01/25/2015 at 16:55

The last battery I replaced in my Triumph Spitfire was 12 years old, and the only reason I replaced it was that it was the wrong size, and once I got the hood adjusted correctly, it rubbed on it. Still worked perfectly, and I never even bothered with a battery tender when it was in winter storage. Was a super cheap Sears battery too, I think I paid $39 for it back in the late 90's..

My Range Rover, on the other hand, is showing signs of needing one, and the mega-bucks Optima Yellow in it is only 3.5 years old. Sigh.

Kevin Rhodes > jalop1991
01/25/2015 at 16:59

This baffles me too. Amazing how willing someone is to spend $20K to "save" $2K. If you want an M3, buy an M3, but don't say you are doing it because God forbid something needs fixing on the car you have now.

This is right up there with the "don't own a German car out of warranty" BS. If you can afford the depreciation on one, you can afford the repairs and maintenance. Just don't be stupid and making payments you can barely afford on a car that you will also have to pay to maintain/fix.

heollha > Methylsulfonylmethane
01/25/2015 at 17:02

Thanks for the tip! I actually considered getting an AutoCraft Platinum AGM from AAP last time I got new batteries, but decided to cheap out and get the AutoCraft Gold traditional battery. Maybe next time though I'll give AGM a shot

Glucklich21- master of the cones > Jimmy Tango
01/25/2015 at 17:03

Mine in my old 335i lasted 5 years. It wasn't even technically dead just yet. I just noticed the struggle cranking when it was cold. Figured it was a better safe than sorry scenario.

DrPlop > PatBateman
01/25/2015 at 17:05

I read up on this whole Dinan warranty on mods done during a cpo warranty. Yes if you can prove that the problem was totally unrelated to the mod (which they can be weasels about this) then the cpo will cover it. However it's usually the drivetrain that's modded in some ways and that's where the real wallet damage happens. From what I remember when I looked into this (have a 1m and about to extend warranty) it's not always easy to get Dinan to cough up the change on big ticket repairs when you're on a post factory warranty. There's many ways for this to become a debacle but I've read of multiple instances where Dinan will claim that the problem was actually because of a defective non modified part and bmw or whoever the warranty is with with say it was the mods fault. With neither willing to budge what do you do? You pay for it yourself actually. I wish I could recall more specifics but my eagerness to add a dinan tune (despite the higher cost and lower performance/drivability) was instantly halted after my research.

BadMotorScooter > Too many M's
01/25/2015 at 17:08

Program the battery to the car? Huh? What in the world is this, except a way for a BMW service shop to steal some money from a paying customer. That kind of nonsense is reason enough to not buy that brand. I might expect it from Ferrari or Lambo, but to get bent over like that for a BMW is just nuts.

Seriously, you can't change the battery in the car without doing some computer work?

Bad72AMX > PatBateman
01/25/2015 at 17:08

While that is likely true, CPO cars have nothing to do with Mag-Moss. They carefully word everything so you are covered under a service contract, not a warranty.

Mauro > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 17:09

i traded a 2013 fiesta kd for a 2011 Ford ka(and money in Cash to equiparate), and the seller told me the car had 60.000kms, but it actually had 112.000. I didnt noticed until I had the deal closed and I started the car. I spent some money on the car and im selling it at low value, but its Hard to sell. Im going to a friend that Will work on the paintjob to make selling it easier. Not a good deal at all.

signinsrlame > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 17:13

that car is a total baller I would love to drive but "tasteful" does not belong in the same sentence as that front end mod.

jeebus > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 17:15

Custom front bumper on an m3 probably means the original was damaged in an accident. Those aftermarket wheels are gross. As for the "only have to pay tax on the price - trade-in"...well that's cool, but it's certainly not that way in most states. Oh and that trade-in on the STi sucks balls. High mileage STis with some stuff broken go for $4k more than that on the used market.

I think your friend was on the right track with his car-buying/selling endeavor but he made a wrong turn somewhere.

Chasaboo > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 17:18

That BMW is going to make a straight line for your wallet in repairs.

Please, when this thing starts to eat away at your savings post what the costs are of owning this car. I'll be curious to see the final tally.

DipodomysDeserti > Jimmy Tango
01/25/2015 at 17:21

Is it even possible to use non OEM batteries in newer BMW's? You have to have the dealership code the battery to the car using BMW software, and I don't think they'll work with aftermarket batteries. If you don't code the battery they'll throw codes.

KnowNothingKnowItAll > Bad72AMX
01/25/2015 at 17:25

That is not necessarily true. Warranties for the purpose of Magnuson-Moss are defined by the statute, not by the dealer/manufacturer. If your CPO warranty makes a promise about the condition of the vehicle, it is almost certainly a warranty.

A warranty, even a CPO warranty, will generally promise the product will be free from defect. A service contract is merely a promise to make repairs over a certain period of time (usually limited to those not the product of wear and tear or preexisting problems). The "extended warranty" you are offered at the dealer when you buy a car or you see advertised on TV as saving someone $1000's on repairs are, in reality, service contracts.

Here is the PDF version of the act if anyone is interested Mag Moss PDF . State law (which is responsible for implementing remedies for violations of the Magnuson Moss Act) varies from state to state.

tkeela > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 17:30

Are long lasting batteries a big deal or something? In my family there's a 2005 Hyundai Elantra with an original battery . We live in Ohio, so winters are cold and summers can be freaking hot and humid.

BC1BC2BC3 > Torque Affair
01/25/2015 at 17:40

I'm going to do this exact thing with an E90. Thanks for the cool tips.

PatBateman > Kevin Rhodes
01/25/2015 at 17:57

The BMW warranty covers anything not touched by Dinan. Dinan's warranty covers the others.

How fast do I need to go (and still keep a warranty)? Faster.